Electrical failure

[Yves]

Hello
I own a 2019 Zero FX with low mileage. The engine and dashboard are functioning correctly, but the lights and horn are not working. I’ve already checked the fuses, and they appear to be fine. What could be causing this issue?”
Can somebody help me out?

 

[adaviel]

I have what appears to be exactly the same issue on my 2017 FX/S.
It's an intermittent problem - sometimes the lights work, sometimes they don't.

 

[Yves]

In my case the problem was situated at the fuse of the 12V transmitter. As I understand : The main battery is 60V and a transformer is needed for the 12V components. It has a fuse that is not in the same box of the other fuses. The fuse was ok, but the cable was disconnected.

 

[adaviel]

I recently got the service manual. It says the low voltage fuses are located
in front of the front power pack, on the right side of the frame. That seems like what I saw. It also mentions a low power fuse located on the power pack, controlling the power pack, lower down on the left. That doesn't seem like it would affect the lights. Where exactly was the fuse that you found ? Since the battery is DC, it can't have a transformer, it has a DC-DC converter.
As I have an intermittent fault, it can't be a fuse, but it could be a loose connector likethe cable you found.

 

[Yves]

I went to my dealer to solve the problem. As I understand it, there is a converter with a fuse. You have to take out the battery to have acces. There was a loose connector on the converter, I think between battery and converter.

 

[TNASH]

Where is the fuse for the converter?
And Where was the loose connector for that converter?
And… a lil help with - ACCY 12V 10A (2nd pic)

From wired wits end…
Thanks
2014 FX with 2018 new 7.2 lith batteries

 

[Richard808]

I went to my dealer to solve the problem. As I understand it, there is a converter with a fuse. You have to take out the battery to have acces. There was a loose connector on the converter, I think between battery and converter.

I have the same problem on my 2017 FXS. Totally intermittent. You take off with all system go, and the lights and horn cut out. Did the dealer say, or does anybody know, if it's okay to ride that way? Is there any chance the motor will cut out because of this? Doesn't feel like it. OTOH was the repair job real expensive at the dealer? I've never removed or even disconnected my battery.

 

[Yves]

I drove that way without problems. I think it is annother cicuit and no harm for the engine. It payed around 450 euro because the dealer needed time to find the cause. Maybe it was a bit to much...

 

[Richard808]

I drove that way without problems. I think it is annother cicuit and no harm for the engine. It payed around 450 euro because the dealer needed time to find the cause. Maybe it was a bit to much...

i'll take your findings -- the solution to the problem -- to the independent repair shop and see if they will make the repair, being forearmed with the knowledge about the little electrical gizmo that needs to be snapped together. Sometimes from experience, a good (bike) mechanic can wiggle and wriggle components out of the way to get at the failure and make needed repairs. I once replaced the "muffler" on an inboard boat engine without taking the engine out, cutting a couple strategic holes and working blind. Your experience may turn out to be the best teacher. Thanks in advance.

 

[Richard808]

i'll take your findings -- the solution to the problem -- to the independent repair shop and see if they will make the repair, being forearmed with the knowledge about the little electrical gizmo that needs to be snapped together. Sometimes from experience, a good (bike) mechanic can wiggle and wriggle components out of the way to get at the failure and make needed repairs. I once replaced the "muffler" on an inboard boat engine without taking the engine out, cutting a couple strategic holes and working blind. Your experience may turn out to be the best teacher. Thanks in advance.

Still running with this intermittent problem -- the lights and horn cut out. Those photos are pretty daunting -- you have to tear down the bike pretty good to get at this "converter" and its connector to the 12v accessories. By converter, do you mean a gizmo that converts battery voltage to 12 v ?

 

[Richard808]

Still running with this intermittent problem -- the lights and horn cut out. Those photos are pretty daunting -- you have to tear down the bike pretty good to get at this "converter" and its connector to the 12v accessories. By converter, do you mean a gizmo that converts battery voltage to 12 v ?

I called up the Dealership, and told them -- asked the Service Manager -- if they could have the Zero technician wrestle that hi-voltage/12v connector into being more reliable. The Service Manager and the technician just couldn't stop saying that they had to replace, or at least look at, the BMS battery management system gizmo; the 800 dollar solution. So I went looking for regualr bike mechanic, an independent motorcycle repair place, of which we have several in Richmond California. So far, all of the independent shops just reply immediately and curtly "we don't work on electric bikes." I ask them what's the difference, its a motorcycle, its got a wiring problem, you can fix it, right? But really, you stop to think about it, the connector we're talking about is right next to the high voltage motor wires, and the high voltage cables coming down from the battery. Maybe they're smart to be skittish. Naaah -- just Luddites. I'll just wait until somebody posts a youTube video of How to Reconnect the 12v Accessories on a Zero FXS Without Removing the Battery. Put it this way: In 1972 Byron HOlland of HOlland's Service in Berkeley replaced the #1 exhaust valve on my hot rod 52 GMC Cadillac engine without removing the cylinder head. I'll bet an ace bike mechnic could diddle that misbehaving plastic connector and have my lights'n horn back in service in a flash.

 

[btreid]

I had the same problem on my 2019 Zero FX. Intermittently the lights and other 12 volt items would not work. Bike drove fine just no lights.... it got worse and worse to the point the lights would not turn on at all.
All the research pointed to the DC to DC converter the powers the lights and other 12 volt items. Zeros had multiple recalls on that part. ZERO Motorcycles DC-DC CONV 500W SEVCON

Purchased at Koups Cycle shop... here is the link (https://shop.koups.com/products/zer...xIybIO22hjsjw_ZP15mdlfv_AKjqioTK_DrhUZAjjq9Uj)

Here is a link that has more information on the part / issue (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/DC-DC_12V_Converter)

It was very expensive to replace but everything works great after it was installed... I looked at the doing it myself... But I could not find a way to get to the part after I partially disassembled the bike.
So I bit the bullet and had the dealer do the replacement.

 

[Richard808]

I had the same problem on my 2019 Zero FX. Intermittently the lights and other 12 volt items would not work. Bike drove fine just no lights.... it got worse and worse to the point the lights would not turn on at all.
All the research pointed to the DC to DC converter the powers the lights and other 12 volt items. Zeros had multiple recalls on that part. ZERO Motorcycles DC-DC CONV 500W SEVCON

Purchased at Koups Cycle shop... here is the link (https://shop.koups.com/products/zer...xIybIO22hjsjw_ZP15mdlfv_AKjqioTK_DrhUZAjjq9Uj)

Here is a link that has more information on the part / issue (https://zeromanual.com/wiki/DC-DC_12V_Converter)

It was very expensive to replace but everything works great after it was installed... I looked at the doing it myself... But I could not find a way to get to the part after I partially disassembled the bike.
So I bit the bullet and had the dealer do the replacement.

Did it turn out that the converter -- the Part , the DC-DC CONV 500W -- was actually bad, or that the snap connector to the 12v accessories harness was making a bad connection? Did the Dealer give you your old parts back, so we can do an autopsy?

 

[btreid]

Yes, he tried working the connector first and then verified with Zero support that he checked all possible options. Both Zero and the dealer tech confirmed it was a bad DC-DC Converter.

So, I am pretty sure that it was a bad part.... he offered but I did not take the old part back.... I feel comfortable it was a bad converter.... again, I saw quite a few people with the same issue on multiple forums.
That's also how I found Zero actually did a recall on the DC-DC Converter that was not putting out enough power. I think the recall was for the 2015 and 2021 models. Just not 2019 (my year)....

 

[Richard808]

"he tried working the connector first "
the technician was able to get his hands on the connector BEFORE the battery was removed for service?
that's what I wanna do.

 

[btreid]

No, he had to remove the battery and a few other parts to get to the DC to DC Converter / other components.

Actually, I started disassembling my bike (removed modular batteries) and kept taking more things off the bike to get to those components.
Then I ran into parts that I had no idea how to remove. So I decided, I was over my head / skill level and took it to the dealer.

I could see it and almost touch it... but it was located under / in a metal case that I could not figure how to remove to access it.

 

[Richard808]

Hey, thanks very much. that's about what I wanted to know --- I too would be in way over my head, with a basket case on my hands littering up my garage. I'm going to just keep on riding, minus the lights and the horn, until something comes up that requires the removal of the battery and I'll remember to tell the technician to have a look at the 12v accessories that don't work. I mostly use this 2017 FXS to go offroad; so the California requirement that you run with your lights on, and have a functioning horn, well, that's a problem; stay off the freeway. I have a 2023 Zero DS at my country place that I use for highway cruising, and just a little offroad. I sure appreciate your taking the time to add this invaluable detailed information about a pesky problem.

 

[adaviel]

I recently got the service manual. It says the low voltage fuses are located
in front of the front power pack, on the right side of the frame. That seems like what I saw. It also mentions a low power fuse located on the power pack, controlling the power pack, lower down on the left. That doesn't seem like it would affect the lights. Where exactly was the fuse that you found ? Since the battery is DC, it can't have a transformer, it has a DC-DC converter.
As I have an intermittent fault, it can't be a fuse, but it could be a loose connector likethe cable you found.

==================
Update - I finally managed to get my bike to the dealer and paid them to sort it out. They declared it was a faulty DC-DC converter, worth some $600, even thought it was an intermittent problem. Several more $100's in labour to replace it - the components and wiring are tightly packed, which is why I didn't feel like tackling it myself. The converter seems to be a sealed unit and hard to test away from the bike. I haven't ridden it much yet. Cross fingers and hope for a permanent fix.